Brad Geddes It looks like there are a ton of questions. So with that, let’s invite everybody back. Fred.
Unknown Speaker 0:21
Brad Geddes 0:25
Nancy. All right. So let me kick back to her earlier in the q&a here. Alright, so here’s a very debatable question in while Brooke, you talked about attribution models, Nancy, Fred, feel free to chime in here. Right. So what is the best attribution model for e commerce? I
Unknown Speaker 0:57
could just take a drink, it depends. I’ve made a game out of it. I almost rephrase the question of not what is best for e commerce. But what is the best attribution model based on the tactics that you’re doing? I think that’s going to be the most important. So that being said, depending on where your efforts lie, if you if you have a brand new brand, and you really need to get the word out, you’re going to spend a lot way up here. And you know, the demand to understand who your brand is, and to generate that, it’s going to take some time. So if you are in that category, I’d recommend kind of more either those like position based potentially looking at first interaction. But it really depends on where your business is at and what you’re doing so.
Unknown Speaker 1:48
So I’m going to add something here as well. So we often talk about attribution as it relates to bidding, right? But those models always exist in whatever analytic system is. So if you’re thinking about we need to reallocate budget, let’s go look at a linear model to see was there even a touch point here? It we’re trying to figure out if we should increase spend in certain areas more brain department? Well, let’s go look at first touch. So just because you’re using one from bidding, doesn’t mean the others don’t have applicable uses in different types of data analysis. This is a very open ended question. Have you ever had issues with Facebook and Google attributions? Facebook versus Google attributions?
Unknown Speaker 2:38
There’s that one to me or
Unknown Speaker 2:39
whoever, whoever, whoever has an opinion, you may chime in.
Unknown Speaker 2:44
Ask about has, as this group familiar with Amazon attribution have, have you guys used Amazon attribution at all and kind of tying in some of those old Amazon search efforts? I’m genuinely genuinely curious about the adoption, if anyone wants to put it in the chat. Because part of your your question, Brad, too, is, you know, what models are available on Amazon that’s extremely limited. And so they’re only giving you certain pieces of data. And we have partnered with Google and social team to understand the impact on Amazon using Okay, awesome, Jenny. Um, we have we have partnered with them to understand, you know, what is driving what posts and things like that are driving traffic to Amazon so that we can attribute credit to those teams and, you know, help kind of advocate for budget there. So Amazon attribution, I also think is going to be something that they’re going to continue to expand because we Amazon is hearing the need for this kind of connected, you know, multimedia strategy,
Unknown Speaker 3:52
right? What’s interesting about Amazon is that, unlike directing people to our websites to do something where we can easily track it on Amazon, it’s like on Amazon, so they have to give us their own attribution models. And there’s a beta or I guess, it may be out of beta at this point. So you can ask them for that. But but I think I mean, maybe the whole Facebook versus Google question is also like, is it in channel attribution versus cross channel attribution, because obviously, you know, Facebook is going to take all the credit for within channel, any interaction happens, even if it started off at Google, right? That’s why you want to look at platforms like Google Analytics, because they’ll give you the cross platform view into things. And then you just have to figure out for yourself. I mean, obviously, you want to optimize within the channel. Maybe you use the channel data for that, but you still want to make bigger budget decisions. And those might be cross channel attribution base.
Unknown Speaker 4:43
Hey, so Brooke, you went through a lot of stuff on settings of like these things mess things up, right? You put this in GA, you put this in Google ads, and j is always gonna be Google Analytics to me. I know ga is now Google ads, too, right? But it’s just it’s ingrained with Google Analytics for introduced some new problems of tracking or or attribution that we should also be aware of as we as we move to ga for
Unknown Speaker 5:11
that is a great question. And I’m in like, in the process of just really diving deep into that. So I don’t have a ton to share right now. And I also don’t want to miss speak, while I’m like doing my own research for clients. But my gut instinct is there will likely be some things that we will have to get used to, specific to, I know I have a client where we’re looking at their their web presence, but then they also have AP data too. So you know, when those are starting to combine, you’re getting a little bit more data in between. and it’s less segmented. I think that’s going to be interesting. But I’m sure there’s going to be some nuances or things that we’re going to have to either change, whatnot to get to the data that we need to or at least deciphered in that way, so I’m happy to follow up on that. But that’s a great question. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 6:01
Can I make a shameless plug Brad? So PPC townhall this Wednesday at 9am. Pacific? We got Ken Williams, Brooke is coming back. And we’re actually going to answer that specific question and go deep on attribution.
Unknown Speaker 6:12
And you know, more part of paid search organizations go is to also promote some of the shows and work with everyone. So the next report is next week, which is also getting some ga four and so forth. Mike, Mike, who, again, is someone we should all think for putting things together. Mike Freedman, he made a comment paid search is 23 years old this month, go to calm watch 23 years ago this month. So if you guys don’t know good to calm and Bill Gross, well, we won’t do a history lesson. Two names, you should probably know. Anyway. So how much conversion data does one need to switch to smart bidding?
Unknown Speaker 6:52
So surprisingly, known. So here’s the thing, right? So with smart shopping campaigns, there used to be a requirement, you have to have some level of conversions, and it’s always going down, it used to be 50, then it became 30, then it became 15. But now Google will let you build a smart shopping campaign, which has by default automated bidding, with no previous conversion data. And so kind of what Google’s probably doing is it’s using data from across its huge ecosystem, to start making predictions before it sees anything about your business. They haven’t really officially disclosed, that’s what they do. But that’s really the only answer to how is it possible, you can start automated bidding with no conversion data. But then on the flip side of that, obviously, if you just have 510 15 conversions per month, that’s not a ton of data for it to make decisions. All right. So you may not see quite the results without putting a lot of effort of your own on top of it, versus someone who’s got 1000s of conversions among.
Unknown Speaker 7:51
So for that gets an A question that I get asked a lot from our giant clients, right is, if I’m the big beast in the industry, why should I use Google’s conversion tracking and Google smart bidding? Because aren’t I just giving Google data to make my competitors more efficient?
Unknown Speaker 8:09
Yeah, well, and that’s the thing. So the beauty of conversion tracking is that you really put in whatever data you want, right? So I hear that concerned about Should I really put in my profit value into value field? I mean, I think you probably should, because it just makes bidding that much more efficient. But if you truly have a concern and index those values, right, like you were kind of alluding to before as well. Yeah, I mean, once the data goes into Google, like, they’re gonna do what they want to do.
Unknown Speaker 8:44
Yeah, Nancy, do you run into that at all? I had to do it. He’s got a lot of big clients. And if Aaron is on the call, right now, I know Aaron’s had this conversation. So Aaron, feel free to chime in, in chat as well.
Unknown Speaker 8:54
Awesome. Yeah. Arne can definitely add additional context. On the marketplace aside, we get a very similar question. And often my response to clients is, you’re you may not be doing it, but your competitors are. And so unless this could this collective, like no brand is giving any data, which you know, is really going to limit their ability to even get those, you know, targeted audiences and things like that. It doesn’t really do much for one brand to kind of withhold that. And so the benefits far outweigh, you know, those kind of competitive concerns. And that’s where, really we have to layer in like, what what is the strategic strategic benefit of being able to have, you know, those audiences because as even as big brands, they’re competing with other big brands, and it is beneficial to understand, you know, how can we, you know, target and underarmour audience or how do we kind of retain a Nike, you know, competitive audience and so, that that’s, that’s coming have that conversation as the benefits outweigh those those pieces? And yeah, I don’t think you know, there’s so much data available, and Amazon has access to so many parts of our shopping habits, there’s not really a way that they will find a way to get that data.
Unknown Speaker 10:16
Yeah, I just I know, we have some industries where the top spenders, it goes like 12 million, 10 million, 8 million, 3 million. And then a lot of people under 100,000, like a massive amount under 100 1000. And so like, it’s always the big people saying, we spend half the entire industry spend re, why should we inform this? And it’s, I think, as much a brand question and philosophy as anything or lawyers getting involved, which is an interesting time. So what attribution model I have attribution questions today, in bidding strategy, do you recommend with dedicated landing pages? would you change it for dedicated landing page?
Unknown Speaker 10:55
I personally wouldn’t. You can, I mean, just think depending on how many campaigns you have, in your building out dedicated landing pages for each one, I kind of go back to reframing it as to what tactic or you know, are you doing? Is it a YouTube campaign? where it’s like, very likely high top of funnel? Or, you know, is it just a non branded search, like I, I would base it off of the tactic and kind of where they’re at, versus if it was just a specific landing page. Now say you didn’t have that kind of like your end all
Unknown Speaker 11:29
Unknown Speaker 11:33
case, on that landing page, where it’s kind of like a, like a free like, Hey, I’m gonna give you this, like a free download and gated, you know, you could kind of play with attribution models that way, but I’m more along the lines of what tactic, what platform are you using?
Unknown Speaker 11:46
And as far as bidding? I mean, I think we’re, the question is trying to lead us to say, well, you have a landing page, so you expect people to convert right there right then. But the reality is that conversion is likely not going to be the thing you really wanted. So again, it might be a lead, but was it a high quality lead, so you still have to inform it after the fact. And after your sales team starts to qualify that lead was better than average was worse than average, and use offline conversion in order to feed that back into the system. Because the worst thing you can do is take a very short view. And you know, lots of people filling out the form, but they’re all coming from the one country that is really cheap to advertise it, but nobody’s buying your product, because it’s too expensive for that market. And unless you tell Google that, they just don’t know. And we’re gonna get you more of that traffic that you end up not caring about.
Unknown Speaker 12:34
Yeah, and I can that just reminded me it’s not an e commerce clients. It is, but it’s still it’s relevant to the fact is, you know, they, they have a dedicated landing page where their offer their main offer for like new people is like free trial free demo. And they get really disappointed when they’re somebody who’s coming in the first time and they’re not signing up for the free trial or demo. And like, still, like, it’s still their first touch point, do you expect them to convert? You know, and I think that there’s like, just that expectation around, like, everything’s going to happen right away at once though, in that instance, I, you know, there is a case to argue that you should be looking at attributions, based on that specific landing page. But it also goes back to this was a brand building effort. You know, even if you’re giving them something for free, it still might take them three or four interactions to actually do something.
Unknown Speaker 13:27
So Fred, you showed a graphic about how Google said in 2019 70% of people use smart bidding, now, which is automated bidding, right, which includes myrin, can chew whatever, um, or in house bid systems? Do they show it all? How much? How many people are using only Google smart bidding? Or if it gets a spend difference or anything that that segment said at all?
Unknown Speaker 13:54
I mean, I asked him and sort of the unofficial number, and our ecosystem would be in the 60 ish percent. use Google’s bidding. You smart bidding.
Unknown Speaker 14:04
Wow. That’s it’s we’re way different. We see a lot of people with either in house systems or marine kenshoo, or you know, some other are Google 360. Hmm.
Unknown Speaker 14:15
Yeah. I mean, let’s not get started on Kenshoo and Marin. Like, it’s just
Unknown Speaker 14:23
Why? Well, so I would argue, we see a lot of companies whose their in house algorithms blow away Google, because they’re bringing in unique data that Google won’t take right now. So when what Yeah, no, sorry. You finished Oh, and so if you’re bringing in Hey, we read we bring our you know, our DSP data, our Facebook, our Facebook data or whatever into one place. We run machine learning off our own stuff, we add our job. Audience manager in our third party audit spanners back into this. And then we push things back out. Group can’t touch the amount of data they’re actually using and setting bids. And we do see a lot of larger companies who are good with data, which is a very important caveat. Yeah, really sophisticated people who do keyword intent bundling.
Unknown Speaker 15:24
Right? And I agree with that. I mean, and the whole point about smart bidding, and us having to shift how we do optimization is looking at our own data. But then making those decisions like what pieces of that data that we know drives our business, what can we fairly assume Google can see if we just give it better conversion data? And then what are the things we can’t see? Like the example I gave? If you do a press release? Like does that have a meaningful impact? Is there something about some factor like Is it snowing, to just really pertains to your business? And so you have to change your targets based on that you have to change your value reporting based on that. But ultimately, for me to try to, like manually bid based off all that is still only half of the solution, right? I mean, I think you need to do the in house analysis of what moves the needle, and then find ways to feed that in some way. And that’s what I did, I google so much was like, engineers would build a system. And it was like, Okay, here’s how it’s supposed to work. But then there was the real world of advertisers, and how do we make that shit work for what we really need to do? And that’s kind of what we’re asking here, too, right? Like, there’s this whole framework of smart bidding, but it is limited in terms of what it can take in. But what are the backdoors? What are the sneaky little ways that you can actually manipulate it to get where you need it to go? Because, I mean, the reason smart bidding is amazing is because it’s the only system in the world that can do auction time, bid updates, like myrin, can’t do that can’t you can’t do I mean, they would love to, I would love to do for optimizer, but it’s just not going to happen, right. And there’s so much value in that real time auction level bidding. And then if you combine your business data, like that’s the holy grail,
Unknown Speaker 17:00
a long ways for that,
Unknown Speaker 17:01
you bring up a really interesting point. And just you know how we get that. And you know, I’m translating the Google language into the Amazon space, so bear with me here, but we are actually developing a tool that we’re calling next best dollar. And essentially, what that’s doing is it’s pulling in all these different impacts of all these different pieces of data to understand where our clients should be bidding higher or lower, and then understanding, you know, what, what are those impacts? Like you said, is it seasonality is what’s happening in the news? Is it a new product launch that, you know, pairs well, with something else in our catalog? So we’re testing that with a couple clients also to understand like, when have we maxed out on a certain, you know, sponsored products, you know, ad type? And when is it time to, you know, maybe test something new so that that’s something that even on the marketplaces side, you know, we’re starting to continue to develop and that is all in house. This is not available through through Amazon. So thankfully, we have that API that we can do that. But um, yeah, it’s definitely something that that we’re continually challenged with.
Unknown Speaker 18:10
So someone, thank you, Nancy, um, you know, wave over to Amazon, I think the rest of us combined. I know, Fred, Fred is quoted with Amazon, too. I do not. Um,
Unknown Speaker 18:23
and I’m learning lunch, too. So
Unknown Speaker 18:24
I appreciate you guys all sharing. This has been a great day.
Unknown Speaker 18:28
So h threes someone mentioned, aren’t they going away? They’re less often seen. Have you heard anything about H three is going away? By threes?
Unknown Speaker 18:40
I haven’t heard it. But I agree with the statement, we hardly see them show in any of our ads. So it’s been
Unknown Speaker 18:49
Unknown Speaker 18:51
kind of difficult trying to understand like, what’s going to work best for us, as we are constantly updating our ad copy. It also makes me wonder like, why are we putting in so much effort to write these ads? They’re not going to show but I haven’t heard that they’re going away? At least for my ads.
Unknown Speaker 19:07
Yeah, unfortunate. There’s no good way to report how often they’re being displayed right? You have to go anecdotal evidence. And I see some industries. It’s like everyone’s kind of age threes are always everyone gets some displayed. If only half the people have them, then it seems like one or two get this incredible bump in their data which Google tries to normalize CTR is a bit which is why position one often has less extension is shown then, you know, two and three and stuff. Um, all right. So what do you guys think about this? So I hear you with you one RSA per ad group guidelines. But what do you think about RSA is being duplicated in the same ad group, the only difference being the URL, so essentially the same RSA twice with different URLs. Google does not duplicate lines across RSA is right Fred. So they still see that as a 10,010 1000 combinations and the URLs just yet one more.
Unknown Speaker 20:06
Yeah. But then you wonder about machine learning, right? Because that will know that the footprint of the components of the ad are the same. So probably see now if you’re if you’re doing conversion rate, sorry, if you do smart bidding, and one of your landing pages seems to convert better, then the system will probably pick up on that and start to favor the one with the better landing page. So in that way, you’d probably see better results.
Unknown Speaker 20:32
But okay, because sometimes I find it with our multipliers, Hasan agroup. Google system, just it’s like it can’t handle the variables, and weird, weird stuff happens with it. That’s just all over the place. Yes, this trimming will be available. David will let everyone know on those details later on. If you messed up the conversion setup in Google ads, how would it affect the machine learning? Oh, this sounds like a bad rabbit hole?
Unknown Speaker 21:04
I mean, I think there’s a short answer. So there’s data exclusion, that’s a setting and smart bidding. So just go ahead. And for the period that you were broken, exclude that data. So that you can actually start with a clean slate when you do have it fixed. Because you know, it’ll, it’ll be bad.
Unknown Speaker 21:21
We had that happen with the clients. It was, it was they, they were trying to say, like anybody who submitted the form was was a lead. And before we came on board, it was set up that anybody who visited that page, that was the conversion, it was not on the button, click. And so it really messed with the bidding strategies then too, because if you were using like a target CPA, all of a sudden you see traffic drop, overnight. So to Fred’s point, like learning how to use those those data exclusions to well will be beneficial.
Unknown Speaker 21:55
Speaking of feeding Google data, rather than relying on Google’s algorithm and audiences, is there a way to target your most valuable revenue generating audiences with their own first party data? not relying on Google stuff? So? Yes, right. If you’re doing manual bidding, you can obviously use your own first party data and just up the bits. Fred to you, right, it looks. So if you’re doing manual bidding, you could do this however you want to with your own prioritization of bits. If you’re using smart bidding, and you put in audiences, right, then Google uses the audience data in smart bidding. Can you prioritize the audiences with smart bidding to say we prefer audience one over two?
Unknown Speaker 22:46
So that is literally what audience bid adjustments will do from a smart bidding perspective. So check out that chart it’s in the URL is in the notes. But that’s how audiences work. If you want to go to do to real extreme. I mean, you set up duplicate campaigns, one for each audience.
Unknown Speaker 23:02
So when you say, Okay, I know Google says prioritize, right, like, okay, so there’s a couple places where you can add bid adjustments that are not used by smart bidding, and Google will prioritize them. How much priority? Do they really give? Do you need to set adjustments of like, plus 500, and plus 300? to really show a big difference? Can you go plus 10? And plus five? Like, how extreme Do you need to be in these adjustments to make Google understand this is actually a priority?
Unknown Speaker 23:34
Yeah, I don’t want to tell you a number. Because back in the day, I once said, ad groups should have between five and 20 keywords when I was at Google, and that became sort of the gospel at that point, even though I just made it up. So let me get your real answer on that. And then we’ll share that.
Unknown Speaker 23:48
Now Rob, manual bidding is not dead. We see. So manual bidding, were you doing it by hand? That should have been dead like five years ago? manual bidding where you’re using Google’s manual CPC, but you have a third party or other system feeding in the bids, that is alive. And well. Do you think manual bidding is dead?
Unknown Speaker 24:08
Search Engine Land, I wrote a post that basically said, manual bidding is data, you’re stupid if you’re still doing it, but much to your point, right? I mean, like, let’s not go and crunch the spreadsheets to try to do everything that machine like conversion rate prediction based off of certain factors like, that’s relatively straightforward. Like that’s not where we need to invest our effort. But I also think that when people think about automated bidding, like automated bidding is not automated bidding. It’s just automating a small piece of what we used to do manually, which is taking that conversion rate prediction, or the value per sipper conversion prediction, and layering that into that next level of KPI which is CPA or ro ass, but ultimately, business doesn’t care about ro as business doesn’t care about CPA, we care about profits, we care about revenues, right? So there’s still those calculations that you have to make an end Like you were in the whole marine kenshoo conversation we’re having, it’s like the reason that somebody systems and somebody has big data projects still get done is because yeah, Google may be looking at 70 factors. But there’s another 10 that you know, for your business matter, you’re still going to use those factors to manipulate the targets on a daily basis, potentially. And that’s fine. And that’s, that’s a hybrid of manual and automated.
Unknown Speaker 25:26
My Google rep says no, less than three, no more than five. I’m assuming that’s number of ads per ad group. thoughts.
Unknown Speaker 25:35
Are that might have been in reference to my keyword statement. If it’s keywords, that’s just ignore it men,
Unknown Speaker 25:41
there are many times more than three keywords is acceptable. And one is okay, too. So if it’s keywords, your Google rep is totally wrong. Let’s assume it’s ads for a second.
Unknown Speaker 25:50
If it’s not, then you’ll probably have a better answer than anyone. But ultimately, it comes down to how much traffic you have, right? So if you have a small volume ad group, and you’re testing five ads at a time, like what are you going to learn? How long is it going to take? If you have a huge ad group, then yeah, run fine.
Unknown Speaker 26:04
We often see if you break five ads, Google’s Google’s ad serving gets pretty wonky at times with how they serve things and stuff that you know, but again, if you have a very small account to ads, maybe as much as you can possibly test so it’s it’s not always a straightforward now Maria to think about what Ferb is alluding to, which is, you know, here’s how many persons we get how long it will take to run a test. All right, I know we have more questions. Ah, Melissa. Oh, it’s from Mike. Anyway. So with recent keyword changes one attendee she asked engrams will become more important.
Unknown Speaker 26:46
I know, you know, you want to answer that to Brad. But yeah, sure. I mean, and grant, anyone can?
Unknown Speaker 26:49
No, I’m asking Brock.
Unknown Speaker 26:53
I don’t want this question.
Unknown Speaker 26:55
Unknown Speaker 26:57
I mean, so I think there’s a couple of things right, first of all, the search query data has been limited. So I think we all need to ask our Google reps like, okay, fine, we get it on the privacy thing. And whether that’s true or not, that’s what they say it’s for. So but regardless of privacy, like tell us the engrams tell us the common phrases that appear in the queries that you no longer want to show us. Because we can use that to make negative keyword decisions or positive keyword decisions for that matter. Right. So I think engrams should have a role, and it should be an increasing role. As far as the recent changes last week, or two weeks ago, VMM and phrase match becoming, you know, the new phrase match, basically, I’m not sure engrams really fit into that in a different way. You’d still use them to find negatives, I do think now is a good time to go back and look at your queries, right? I mean, match types, once again, changed how they behave, and you’re gonna start seeing new queries, and you just want to be really on top of your negatives. Even if there’s less data for us to look at. There’s still some data. And that can still tell us something.
Unknown Speaker 27:59
Well, I also find engrams are incredibly useful for finding places Google is now decided to match you to they didn’t in the past, because we still see some of the the matching is is just awful, right? And so but if there are a bunch of one impression terms, or 10 impression terms, whatever, right, it’s hard to see it, the anger is really bring those patterns up. And that’s where I find they can be useful from the non negative just saying, okay, so Google now believes sale is the same as packages, when a lot of companies, you know, automatically bundle packages, nothing to the sale price. My Favorites still, they think considered trademarks, and registered trademark and trademark symbols as the same term, which of course, is quite different.
Unknown Speaker 28:54
And you you even had a great example, which I think I hope I’m not sharing it out of place here. But branding and logo design.
Unknown Speaker 29:01
Oh, yeah. Yes. We logo design seems to be this term that Google can match to whatever they feel like, it’s really bizarre. There’s several like that, right. Alright, so what if you have really high CPC, you got 2550 plus CPCs. And low search activity? is smart bidding still effective?
Unknown Speaker 29:24
Well, I mean, I think it’s limited by budget, right. So just like a manual bidding, you want to have a high enough budget to allow the system to buy multiple clicks per day. Generally, guideline would be at least 10 times 10x. So that’s one point, I think smart bidding can be effective, regardless of how high your bids are, because it can go and find those potential queries that, you know, maybe aren’t at those high CPCs and have a lower probability of converting but then hence also get a lower bid. So it finds you that new volume, so I don’t think there’s really anything to To say that at a certain CPC level has been becomes more or less effective. I think it just, it’s again, it’s, and I put this in my book, right. But digital marketing in an AI world, the role that we as humans have to play is one of them is the PPC doctor. So it’s about understanding these interactions and right, just a high bid with smart bidding, that might be fine. But did we look at the budget, because that might be the thing that now comes into play, and mocks with everything else? Right? So as we put these medicine and the solutions in place, how do things begin to interact? I wish I could give you a shorter answer. But that’s why we’re always on these sessions, right? Like nothing in PPC is easy and like, clear.
Unknown Speaker 30:44
All right, so Oh, please go ahead.
Unknown Speaker 30:46
I was just gonna piggyback off of that, we, we have some smaller clients where again, they might only have a couple $1,000 a month, but they are in a very competitive space, we’re talking like 3040 $50, VP C’s, I’m sorry, my cat is like sitting on my computer. But he, they try to do everything at once. So like, Can we put like $50 a day here? Can we like they want to run all of these different things. So to that point of, could it be too limiting, I would say yes, if you’re trying to run all of these campaigns at once, if you’re starting with a limited budget, you’ve got high CPCs, stick with the themes that you feel like are your core competitive pieces and start there, prove the value of it, and then you can expand and don’t try to do everything at once. So I would just want to add that caveat in there, too.
Unknown Speaker 31:34
I was just going to add translating it to Amazon, as well. You know, we always start with our automatic campaign so that we can understand how our consumers interacting with that product on the platform. And if it is different to your other, other, you know, platforms that you’re using. So we always start with that we will put some manual campaigns into the mix. But that’s kind of where we started. And to Brookes point, you know, based on budget, as well as client goals will often put it we keep a very, very simple green, orange, red, and we’ll tag campaigns based on the priority of that relative to the clients goals. So similar on the Amazon side. So Google
Unknown Speaker 32:24
pushes, automatic bidding, but clients want to see their ads and the top four, Max clicks doesn’t cut it, what do you do read? Alright, so the clients like, why is my ad not at the top of the page? What do you guys do with that?
Unknown Speaker 32:42
I mean, there’s different types of bidding strategies that you can do in terms of impression share, they you can do like top of page rate, but sometimes, depending on the competitiveness, like that gets very expensive, or you may only show at the absolute top 10 20% of the time, so you can test out different things to see what works. But also, I find it’s very hard to explain to them like, you might not see you’re out on the top floor, but somebody over here might because it’s that real time auction bidding like you, they’re going to show it to, in two different ways to two very different people based on their intention of how they feel like they’re going to engage with it.
Unknown Speaker 33:24
So Brooke, so you’re one of your clients who spends 1000 bucks a month, who’s a lawyer, Minneapolis comes in and says, I want to be the top of the page all day long. You’ve had the conversation before, right? Well, what’s your answer?
Unknown Speaker 33:37
Unknown Speaker 33:39
Unknown Speaker 33:41
Unknown Speaker 33:42
like Show me the money. But it’s, you know, it’s having those hard conversations and setting the realistic expectations of what do you want to show up or anything? It’s like no find, find like, what is your core? Like, you can start testing a couple different things. But yeah, boy, you’re so many different lawyers, you could look at 100 200 $300 CPC is, but you it’s just unrealistic. And sometimes you have to have those not fun conversations first and get them to like, you know, start, start small start somewhere, but it’s not going to be all of the time you have to prove that value. Because I’ve been in that situation time and time again. We’re like, okay, we’ll do this. And then they’re not seeing the results right away. Like, you can’t do everything at once. And so then they say it doesn’t work. So they’re just never, we.
Unknown Speaker 34:33
We have a lot of you know, I say that my background is in luxury beauty and we have a lot of luxury beauty clients that work with us. They’ll come in they say, well, we’re the number one seller in Sephora. How come we’re not top of the SERP on Amazon? How come our bids aren’t winning you know that that sponsored brand placement and and it’s very similar conversation and often Brad, you know, we’ll back up that conversation with with data. Here’s your budget. Here’s what CPCs costs. And essentially back back into that. And then the other thing we do is you know, we we do have retargeting is is, you know, huge on Amazon. And you can do that with a really low budget and so that to some clients starting with a display ad feels a little too high in the funnel as opposed to kind of search ads, but we sometimes may flip it. And so I think it’s being strategic with with what you have, and then backing that up with, you know, like Brock said some of that data on what are the actual costs of playing in that space. And sometimes, less is more, right. So
Unknown Speaker 35:36
if you have $100 day budget, and you’re paying a buck for the first position, and you can be in position five for 50 cents, and still spend your budget, you just doubled your clicks. So sometimes there is a you know, your best solution is actually to lower your bids and not be there. Alright, um, thoughts on scaggs. They don’t
Unknown Speaker 35:58
you roll your eyes, Brooks here, you got to go.
Unknown Speaker 36:02
keep remembering like, oh, I’ve had tweets about some of these things. And that’s, I think that’s where your engram conversation was going, because I had some thoughts about that. But they used to work. And just with the loosening of match types, they just don’t anymore, and they’ve become more inefficient, at least for our clients. And so really, for us, it’s been, you know, again, I think somebody had used the term like intent, grouping your keywords, that’s become more beneficial to us. And less overall, like management in terms of like, Okay, I need this keyword to show up only here. And you’re spending so much of your time combing through queries to make sure you’re not cross pollinating. So they’ve become less important for our clients. And it’s been more intent based on search volume driven. But it would love to hear, you know, if there’s anything different that you guys are doing to
Unknown Speaker 36:54
Yeah, I mean, so there was a almost a footnote and bmm change announcement from Google, which basically said that they are fixing the preference for when the keyword matches exactly to the query, which means that some of the cross pollination that we have been seeing, and we all have tools for and we have scripts to deal with that may actually become a little bit less important, because Google presumably, will now give preference to the right keyword, which would indicate that scaggs may actually regain some of the power that they used to have, provided that’s truly going to happen. I mean, that’s, it’s just really too soon to tell, we’re gonna start testing it now that the changes are launching. But that is a footnote, I think Google didn’t make a big deal about and, Brad, I know, you’ve talked to the product managers about it, and may not fully agree on what the press release said,
Unknown Speaker 37:47
No, no, they that this reason it is word preference, right? Because the problem was, they initially wanted to prioritize it and say it will show but if your exact match has an ad rank of you know, five, and your phrase matches that rank of 15. But this is prioritized, then we can’t show the phrase match. But this one is too low. So we show nothing instead. And so that was the problem initially is there will be a lot of situations, if they made it an absolute, you would not show an ad, which is why they use the word preferred meaning we’ll say we’ll do it this way. But if it can’t work out, we don’t care, we’re still gonna source something.
Unknown Speaker 38:29
Right. And a good point, too. So if you take the exact same keyword, and you replicated an exact phrase, and broad, then the preference is completely up to Google based on ad rank, right? Because from a query perspective, they’re all exact matches to whatever the user searched for. But it’s the moment that it becomes a variation through phrase or through broad or even through close variants. I guess. At that point, it’s Google seems to indicate we’re going to stop doing that quite as much as they have in the past. And try to show the ad. that matches or to keyword has the exact same text as the query.
Unknown Speaker 39:04
And so it’s more of a mathematical problem in the backend that people not serving stuff, right. And Google does not want to lower auction pressure, of course. And I’ve always hated scaggs. By the way, I always thought they’re a waste of time, the intent based ad groups, where do you want to call? It’s always my favorite. So for a brand new account would shut off the smart shopping or standard shopping brand.
Unknown Speaker 39:26
No data, depends on how much effort you’re going to put into it. Right. So the reason I think that smart shopping is so nice is that it’s newer in PPC. So I think a lot of agencies and practitioners kind of like take it on as an afterthought and maybe are not as good at it. Maybe don’t spend as much time as they should in that case. Yeah, absolutely. Smart shopping is going to outperform doing a lousy job or basically not doing much. But if you work with a bigger client and you kind of got you got your strategy figured out and you got prioritization that you’re going to use and to campaign prioritization of interest Helping high medium low that still works. You’re gonna do like query sculpting to get the right, you know, brand level searches to go to one of them and non brand to another. Like all of that still works, right. But it takes time it takes effort. So in that case, I would say, go for regular. Alright.
Unknown Speaker 40:19
Hey, Nancy, does Amazon have audience targeting the in market and all these different different categories of users? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 40:27
so great question there, I’m gonna separate it out into the two platforms. So Amazon advertising, which historically has been a mess, and then display, so display is the easy one we have in market lifestyle and retargeting audiences readily available. We don’t have in market audiences within our search ad platform. However, we can, you know, there is, you know, product targeting, there is, you know, like product targeting or alternative product targeting so we can make our own in market audiences through that. But if you’re talking about, you know, specifically just being able to target an audience that can be done through Amazon’s display. Okay,
Unknown Speaker 41:12
excellent. And you three have answered every person’s question. It’s amazing. No one has any more questions. So where do you think we’re going this year in paid search? Right? So every year everyone likes to their predictions, but of course, last year, went crazy. Um, are we in for the same? It’s more machine learning, Google’s gonna pull up back some more adsorbing less control? Are you know, we have the year of audiences, we’re finally audiences are really sort of took center stage? What do you think we’re going?
Unknown Speaker 41:48
Yeah, I mean, there was one question. Where, yeah, well, I’m gonna No, no, we we answered all questions about cash was basically saying, like, I’ve already read, lose control to optimize, right. And I think that’s sort of a part of the divorce that people have. And I think, yes, we are going to continue to see more automation, Google is going to go down their path. Why? Because they make more money, because advertisers want to do it, right, they make more money. So all in all, I mean, there’s really no reason to go back in a different direction. But I think we were just at this stage where we have to make a huge mind shift, right, we’re not losing control, we’re losing the controls we used to have. But we still have different controls. And so we need to re educate, we need to figure out like how is it we bring our data to bear on making the machine learn better, right, and the machine learning may be limited. So we may have to use backdoors to achieve that. And so we’re frustrated that losing the controls we’ve had for so long, but I think it’s actually a really great opportunity to provide a lot of value to our clients, to our businesses, because there is a ton of stuff we can do. And basically, the things that we focused on, were at a lower value in the grand scheme of things that we can now actually go and focus on higher value things.
Unknown Speaker 43:03
I would like to piggyback off of that, and 100% agree, we’re just talking about it in our agency, you know, we’re, we’re, you set a great, we’re re educating ourselves and almost like kind of redefining our role and what we play with our clients, and it’s a lot less in the day to day, I wouldn’t say that’s new, that’s been coming, you know, like, last year, a couple years, but just wanted to validate, you know, we’re seeing the same thing with our agency, Fred, in my opinion, like From where are we going? I think privacy is going to be a big thing, as we’re continuing to see other platforms, you know, talking about, you know, only allowing, like, first party data or, you know, I kind of alluded to this, like, some people can actually, you can prevent GA, Google Analytics, excuse me, Brad, Google Analytics, like from loading. And so I feel like tracking users is going to be more and more difficult, and just finding ways to piece together some of these attributes to make sure that we’re making the most educated decisions. And, again, more coming on that with Google Analytics for but I think that’s going to be a main focus for at least what we’re looking at our clients.
Unknown Speaker 44:15
I absolutely agree, even as it translates into, you know, the Amazon space is the privacy piece, I think, you know, with the resignation or shift of Jeff Bezos to the board and the AWS person coming in I’m going to be really interested to see if they break ofay with AWS and what happens there and you know, how that might address some of those those privacy concerns so broke i think that’s that’s something that I’m definitely watching out for too. Especially also when it comes to Amazon three p sellers. You know, those three p sellers have access to email addresses and, uh, you know, addresses and things like that and they’re using that for for advertising. So, you know, how is Amazon I’m going to going to protect those customers. The second thing that that I would add there that I think is going to be interesting to watch is voice. You know, I think Amazon is coming up with some really cool options and advertising for voice as well as Ott. So that’s something that my team is kind of continually continuing to stay on top of, I will add in one final piece on that is Twitch. So Amazon now has has twitch inventory. I think this adds a new dynamic, and these are full screen video ads that essentially take over that that gamers, you know, break or whatever it is. And so it’s gonna be interesting to see how how Amazon advertising partners with Twitch, and you know, those really engaged audiences. So those are kind of the top three broad that I’m looking at this year.
Unknown Speaker 45:53
Excellent, excellent. And with that, we are just about out of time. Any where Can everyone find you? But most important question do you hang out on LinkedIn, Twitter, your home and they have come find you at home? Like, where are you? Right? Where do you need? Where do people come and find you?
Unknown Speaker 46:08
Great question. Well, if
Unknown Speaker 46:10
anyone’s ever in San Diego, please stop by post pandemic. I would love love to meet for coffee or cocktail but LinkedIn or Twitter, I’d be happy to take any more questions.
Unknown Speaker 46:20
Unknown Speaker 46:21
Twitter NATS mcglothlin on Twitter and Nancy McLaughlin on LinkedIn. That’s pretty easy.
Unknown Speaker 46:29
Yeah, same. So you probably don’t want to come to Minnesota right now it is. It’s warmer than it was like a week ago. But it’s nice and snowy. I do. I’m pretty active on Twitter and LinkedIn when I can be. I have my Twitter handle in my presentation. It’s just at Brook Osmond sin, and then my LinkedIn should also just be nothing but I can drop it in the chat to
Unknown Speaker 46:52
Unknown Speaker 46:53
For me, I find me on Twitter, at Silicon Valley’s spelt like my last name. So kind of hard to spell, but you’ll find me.
Unknown Speaker 47:01
Excellent, excellent. And VG during Twitter or wherever else, you can just search and find most of us. We’re not too hard to we don’t hide very well. So with that, we are at happy hour time. So thank you all for speaking. Thank you for your day today. It was wonderful. Everyone’s I’ve seen only positive comments, nothing negative. So that’s always a good takeaway. At the end of the day, and with that, we will turn it over to David, he will bring us into happy hour time.
Unknown Speaker 47:34
It This is analogous to, I just figured out it’s like day Thursday, at a multi day conference. You know, we’re all kind of tired. We all could use a drink. And we gather either over a dinner table or a bar stools set up. And we talk about everything we talk about our lives, we talk about how we really feel about attribution. So that’s what we’re going to do right now. And I’m going to invite the other board members who have been lurking around to pop in, and attendees. I’m happy to pull you into this room to talk with us. If you’ll type into the chat box. I’d like to join so let’s see everybody had good luck gave your drink. You’re on mute.
Unknown Speaker 48:41
I just thought that I might have to go get an actual drink. I still have my coffee. So I might hop right back. That’s cool.
Unknown Speaker 48:52
I’m gonna stop
Unknown Speaker 48:54
taking over San Francisco. San Francisco right?
Unknown Speaker 48:59
I so far I never remember what thing I have. I don’t even know how this one got on because I had the PSA one but then I took it off to do as a non industry thing. And then suddenly this is back on I have no idea.
Unknown Speaker 49:14
Yeah, hopefully I don’t use one because I find they’re actually kind of distracting except I’m in my daughter’s office. So without seeing you know all the girl on pi if you want to see lots of girl empowerment stuff. It’s all over the place right is I’m in our office today. Not mine.
Unknown Speaker 49:29
Oh my gosh, our kitchen right now. So actually, it’s probably best that the bridge is up.
Unknown Speaker 49:36
Right if it makes you feel any better. We are remodeling our duplex that we have and so I’m basically in like this going to be a second bedroom but it’s like a closet right now and I had to rearrange my desk specifically for this because otherwise you’d see just like clothes and clothes and clothes like this just I cannot wait for my office to be done.
Unknown Speaker 49:57
No I get that’s what we’re mottling are all of our bathrooms, right? So while I’m in my offices record below the master so otherwise you’d be hearing a wet saw right now, which I know would be a very good on beyonds.
Unknown Speaker 50:12
My clients got used to I mean, we did everything on this house, the siding, the roofing, I’m calling it a lemon of a house. I’m going to just be real honest. But
Unknown Speaker 50:23
Unknown Speaker 50:24
So my work hours get shifted to weird times when that’s not going on.
Unknown Speaker 50:29
And Melissa, I’m, like seeing Melissa, we don’t see Melissa enough. Hey,
Unknown Speaker 50:34
there’s Andrea. Are you doing Andrea? You’re muted right now?
Unknown Speaker 50:39
Yeah, no, we’re just dealing with a client that audit no index tag to the whole website by accident. Oh, they got the next completely very fun day.
Unknown Speaker 50:52
Oh, no. So when when was the last time we were together? Drinking at a conference?
Unknown Speaker 51:01
My last offense was in was it February?
Unknown Speaker 51:05
Right. We were We were in San Jose. San Francisco. San Jose. Yeah, it was February.
Unknown Speaker 51:13
Yeah. And it was it definitely felt like we were at the at the beginning or the end?
Unknown Speaker 51:22
Or didn’t know, right. We knew people were staying home and it was a lower attendance, but we did not know what was coming. And anyone who predicted this, but no, everyone was wrong. Who said I predicted this? Oh, you were wrong?
Unknown Speaker 51:34
Yeah, no, no one this is no. And and then even when it just started happening? It was like, Alright, well, you know, I still had things in. I had trips in April, it was I guess not in May. like Oh, definitely may well happen. And you remember that?
Unknown Speaker 51:54
Oh my god. And then it’s like schools get one day off. A week off. Two weeks off. Oh, your kids are gonna be home the rest of your lives, right? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 52:07
So crazy. Jason.
Unknown Speaker 52:09
Unknown Speaker 52:12
Hey, sorry, I had to log out and log back in there was an issue with my video.
Unknown Speaker 52:15
No problem. For the attendees, everybody on the screen is a member of the board of directors the paid search Association and contributed to this conference in one way or another. Let’s see what’s up. Except Brook Brook is not on the board. Not yet.
Unknown Speaker 52:40
I am on the board of our local men search Association in Minneapolis. So
Unknown Speaker 52:47
I can I can attest to your story about kind of living in the closet. The very first phone call we get me
Unknown Speaker 53:01
thank you saw closet.
Unknown Speaker 53:04
very delicately said um, are you in a closet?
Unknown Speaker 53:10
Yes, yes. I well.
Unknown Speaker 53:11
I mean, it’s a it’s a bedroom, but not a bedroom right now.
Unknown Speaker 53:17
So Jenny, when do you think the next conference next physical conference will be held to search conference?
Unknown Speaker 53:27
Ah, I know there are hopes for at Well, I think are there some plans? Like I feel like some have said we’re going ahead in and not fall like I feel like somebody is planning a summer maybe Am I making this up? I feel like someone has something in person scheduled for summertime. I could be wrong. But I know there’s a lot of hopes for for fall timing.
Unknown Speaker 53:58
But it’s more about you can schedule a book. Will they come right? It’s the whole like build it but they don’t come time. Yeah, I think to be worried about
Unknown Speaker 54:07
I’m trying to remember who it was or like no matter what. I don’t know. Local one, maybe Texas? What’s the one in there? Like? I don’t know.
Unknown Speaker 54:18
Unknown Speaker 54:21
Unknown Speaker 54:22
I don’t know, well, no
Unknown Speaker 54:23
suit of search. I’m looking at on pubcon site. And they kind of imply that they’re going to be holding a conference but they don’t have details on the location or the dates, but they also were going to hold pubcon in person last November until like almost the last minute they want virtual.
Unknown Speaker 54:43
Unknown Speaker 54:53
I read something this morning. Let me look it up here. that there will be a hero conference. June 2 to June 2 to the third 2021 in Austin.
Unknown Speaker 55:11
Oh, so maybe that’s what I was thinking about was be the one Jedi. Yeah, I heard that.
Unknown Speaker 55:17
Yeah, no. I thought I saw something today that said. And this this is related, I think to their acquisition by brain labs. But I think I read something that said that it would be not PPC specific would include SEO sessions.
Unknown Speaker 55:40
That’s that virtual summit. They’re doing a march.
Unknown Speaker 55:45
Virtual summit in March. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 55:47
Yeah. And they’re combining search love with some element of PPC hero. That’s right. We
Unknown Speaker 55:54
talked about that yesterday. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 55:59
There you go. Miko in the chat. Mike seems to know everything
Unknown Speaker 56:04
that I said up.
Unknown Speaker 56:07
Advanced Search summit. What is that? Oh, that’s um, Jim Christian.
Unknown Speaker 56:13
Doesn’t want to Napa? Yeah. Yeah. We’re all supposed to be vaccinated by
Unknown Speaker 56:23
Unknown Speaker 56:24
Unknown Speaker 56:26
Yeah. There’s a thing in Bali in November. to that?
Unknown Speaker 56:32
Yeah. I do think that’s the thing is like, who is you know, I don’t know, I feel like people are gonna be ready to travel. And so Bali, where if you’d asked me last year, I would have been like, I don’t know, that sounds like a lot of work. A lot of effort. I don’t care. I’ll fly in a plane for six days straight.
Unknown Speaker 56:57
And that’s like, if you you have to be in a two week quarantine like, I think Bali over Minnesota, I guess already.
Unknown Speaker 57:06
Unknown Speaker 57:11
Okay, one more time for the attendees. If you want to join us in this virtual room, and chat with us and get to know each other type into the chat box. I’d like to join.
Unknown Speaker 57:26
That was great today. You guys. By the way. All the presentations. It was really good. Thank you. And, yeah. And Nancy, the Amazon attribution. And it’s funny. I was I had a call with Simon Coleman a few weeks ago, because I was picking his brain about it. It’s interesting. I mean, I it has, it has the ways to go. But
Unknown Speaker 57:57
Unknown Speaker 58:00
but there’s potential there. Yeah, I
Unknown Speaker 58:03
mean, the the
Unknown Speaker 58:04
first place I first got introduced to it is one of our clients, one brands. They were kind of debating with a they switch their website to drive directly to Amazon. And we were trying to figure out like, Okay, well, you know, what are the other influences? Where is the consumer buying? Because they’re buying on Amazon anyway, does this does this make the most sense? And so that that has been, you know, a couple years ago, when it was first an alpha that we started testing it, but especially hearing some of the conversations today, it has definitely got a long way to go. But on the Amazon Marketplace aside, we’ll we’ll take what we can get. So
Unknown Speaker 58:43
yeah, yeah. Because I was using for a company that does they sell direct, and they sell on Amazon, and other channels, but they were, they do direct some of their AdWords or Google ads to Amazon, when based on shipping issues and all that. So it is nice now to at least have some level of insight. And I do think, I mean, they do it for specific products. But it is also interesting to be able to see total sales impact as well. So, I mean, the idea of it is, is great.
Unknown Speaker 59:32
Absolutely, yeah. And I think it further kind of connects that experience for the consumer and Amazon attribution came out first and then Amazon post came out. And so I always wonder when I see a new ad type Can I link back to like, where Amazon got their data to develop, you know, this, this new program. And so, it is it is really interesting to see the evolution of that and I think it’s gonna be even, we’re gonna continue to See that? So I didn’t talk about it today. But Amazon’s Marketing Cloud is going to be really interesting and helping us kind of connect these media data points because and it’s now allowing us to see essentially Click pause hitch history, which on both search and display, it’s always been last click attribution on Amazon. And so it makes it difficult to show if our top of funnel you know, advertising is impacting sales. So Amazon is definitely putting some some effort behind attribution in 2021.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:35
Yeah, really interesting.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:37
And I want to break in and welcome Laura Hufford. Am I pronouncing that correctly? You did. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:45
Thanks for let me join. I was kind of bummed. I missed the first day. I’m, I’m down here in Texas. And so as y’all have seen, crazy, so we actually got lucky. We didn’t lose power. But we lost internet like right before the first day of this was supposed to start. So I’m looking forward to hearing the recording once Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:06
Yeah, thanks. Let’s
Unknown Speaker 1:01:07
get rid of the capitals gear.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:11
I’m originally from DC, I got to show the love.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:16
I’ve got to ask, is that a drum kit in the background?
Unknown Speaker 1:01:18
It is. Yeah, I’ve
Unknown Speaker 1:01:19
got my electronic drum kit back here. So
Unknown Speaker 1:01:21
stop sign over the bat bass drum. Yeah, you know, I’m
Unknown Speaker 1:01:25
gonna make it look kind of metal. Right,
Unknown Speaker 1:01:27
Unknown Speaker 1:01:29
Nice. Yes. So what’s your what’s your PPC experience?
Unknown Speaker 1:01:33
I’m actually pretty limited. I my background in marketing, and I got started doing more social media and email marketing. But long story short, I started working in a new position a few weeks ago, where I, I answered an advertisement for an email marketing position. And I ended up being like the coordinator for the entire department. So I’m trying to learn so I can help direct some of the part timers that are coming in that are doing PPC. So I’m trying to get just kind of wrap my head around. So basically, everything that we might be using we’ve sounds like they’re doing a lot with Google and Facebook right now. But I was really interested in what I learned yesterday about, you know, some of these niche markets like Pinterest, with Snapchat or Tick tock tick tock yet. So very important diving into that. All right. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:22
That reminds me, Brad, there was a question that wasn’t answered. Which was directed to you. Yeah. So when are you going to update your book?
Unknown Speaker 1:02:36
Unknown Speaker 1:02:40
you know, I mean, Google changes stuff constantly. It would have to be another 150 pages. The last one was 550. Well, writing a 700 page book just sounds like torture.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:57
Unknown Speaker 1:03:00
And my best excuse is a Willa, my editor is now at. Well went to Linda, which got them bought by LinkedIn. And so I don’t have my editor anymore. I don’t have a good excuse, really, except I don’t want to write 700 pages. And things change fast. It’s just, I mean, Google changes you. I mean, think if I were, you know, six months ago, we had had a match type change already. So it’d be wrong for match types. We have ga for wouldn’t have any ga for screenshots. Google, I don’t know how many ga interface Google Ads interfaces I have right now. But I’ve got colored bars, I have a straight navigation bar, I have some with only side navigation with zero top navigation. I have some that are completely collapse. When you start I have others that are always expanded when you start. I have one that sub blue and white sidebar running down the side, which I’ve never seen from a Google blue white combination before. So I think I have five or six different Google Ads colors right now.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:07
I have to
Unknown Speaker 1:04:08
when I log in, I have to look and say like, which UI is this to figure out where to go? Wow. It’s really bizarre. I have no idea what’s going on. Right? It’s almost like I feel like I’m in a bizarre experiment, you know, from them. I don’t know.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:22
I just I just heard several attendees saying, well, Brad is confused. I don’t mind being so as confused as I’ve been.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:31
Or you ever log in now and be like, Alright, where is this? Is that under that advanced section, which has all the really good stuff? Yeah, like click here, then. I mean, like I find, and the search doesn’t always bring things up. So yeah, the search is great. When it brings the right screen, which is not always. I mean, sometimes I’m like stay I’m looking for things that I feel like should be just in my face and there’s somehow gone.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:56
Well, then you start feeling like you’re getting gaslit by the interface. Do you like? Is this new? Did I see this yesterday? Do I? Have I not ever been able to find this thing? Is it? I don’t know. I you started second guessing yourself? Yep.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:15
I do want to give a plug to Fred. whose book name? I can’t remember.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:26
Digital Marketing in an AI world. Beautiful. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:31
very up to date. But it’s not a soup to nuts, learn everything there is to know about PPC. And I know I’m actually updating it. Okay, well, you’re ready by about September. Cool. Awesome.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:51
Yeah. Greg Finn has a book coming out. I don’t know when though.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:57
Unknown Speaker 1:05:58
on on Google ads.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:02
I think you almost have a book now that’s only shopping, or only display or only search, right? Because most people aren’t doing every ask or b2b, most b2b? Oh,
Unknown Speaker 1:06:14
yeah. Yeah. You said
Unknown Speaker 1:06:18
in my spare time,
Unknown Speaker 1:06:19
or this idea.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:22
So the ultimate book would be have an online component where the updates went online. In fact, didn’t we have a system with Wiley, or a proposed system? where maybe this was a previous career job where the updates were online, and occasionally they would be printed out and mailed to the recipients?
Unknown Speaker 1:06:50
Have you ever tried to fit like, a, you’re reading a book? You have to know what’s there? You have to think Alright, so these three paragraphs are wrong. And then these pages are right. This is wrong again. Like if you’re reading like a Kindle that can be dynamically updated. Great. I’d seamless That’s wonderful, everybody. A paper book. I mean, I love paper. I love my Kindle. But it’s just it’s impossible to keep a paper book up to date. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 1:07:18
so whose book is most up to date? Who’s who’s soup to nuts? I don’t you know, I’m gonna say mine’s the oldest. So I don’t even recommend it.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:29
I think Andrew goodmans is older than yours.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:31
Unknown Speaker 1:07:32
I do the technical editing for Andrews when I lived in Pennsylvania still, so I’m gonna call him back a lot of years. Has he revised his nothin Not to my knowledge. Oh, wow.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:42
Maybe Carrick’s will Andy’s the latest because he created I think it was this year or late.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:49
I can’t Yep.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:51
Kirk has a book that was out this year. And then Patrick?
Unknown Speaker 1:07:56
Go, they’re not stupid enough. is a nice thought. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:02
Yeah. Curses, anecdotes.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:06
Yeah. Well, the other one out there is the one from Cypress north. Which is a Google ads. golling. Yes. And they come up with it this year, too.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:17
Yeah. Is it out? Andrea? That’s the one I was talking about. But I didn’t know if I could if it was out yet. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:23
I believe Yes. Yes. You can buy it on Amazon.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:27
Okay, cool. I’ll pass the link. That’s, that’s Yeah, that’s this. That’s this is pretty soup to nuts. That’s where I would start, I guess.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:39
Well, for the few attendees that are left, I want to encourage you to give us feedback on the conference. And also for those of you who are or even for those of you who are not, PSA members, love to hear what you would like our organization to do. We’ve done a couple of conferences, we just with Melissa’s leadership, launch the pilot program for our mentorship program. And that that means that people like Kirk Williams, will actually sit down and talk with you about what you want to learn and then help you learn it. So those are a couple of things we’ve done, but we’d love to hear what what more you would like to see. See as producer or do I think we’ll try to Genie Genie might have good ideas about this too, to survey the surveyed the attendees of the conference and find out what they liked what they did and what they’d like to see differently.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:57
Yeah, that sounds great.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:00
Well, I’m going to make an executive decision and say that this shrimp is all gone. There’s no more beer. And
Unknown Speaker 1:10:10
my bernaise getting warm.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:16
Oh, just just one last thing about this conference, that you will get you, the attendees will receive an email with instructions about how to access the recorded sessions. I’ve just been writing back and forth with john Lee, who’s going to edit the videos down to the individual ones. And it’s going to take him a couple of weeks. So look for it in early March. That’s okay.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:49
That’s very nice of him to do.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:50
Yes. It’s not trivial. Okay, so thanks, everybody. Thanks, Brad. Thanks, Andrea. Thanks, Melissa. Thanks, Jenny. Thanks, Jason. is David. Thanks, Mike.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:03
thank everybody. I pleasure good, friends. Okay, okay. Cheers, everybody.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:09
Transcribed by https://otter.ai