Unknown Speaker 0:10
Okay, I’m gonna open it up to the panel discussion. Jason still on the line. AJ is there Zach Vila. i’m john Lee is participating in a Microsoft meeting right now. But he may be coming in a little bit late. So we’ve got plenty of questions here. I’ve got a couple for AJ. But before we get to those, let me make sure I get all the earlier ones. Yeah, this here. This is not on any of the topics we discussed today. But it’s a good question. And I feel that there. Some of you are qualified to answer this question. So the question is, what’s the best way to target b2b audiences in Google ads?
Unknown Speaker 1:10
Alright, who wants that one? I’ll play a backup hitter on this one.
Unknown Speaker 1:15
To say go for it.
Unknown Speaker 1:20
Well, I think my preferred route, if I do have budget for LinkedIn ads, I want to drive that b2b traffic to my website. And then I want to retarget that traffic with Google and, and or Facebook, but ideally, both. And I know this doesn’t really fit the criteria, because you had to get the traffic originally anyway. But staying in front of them on on Google and Facebook is is very, very efficient. So I like that assuming that you have enough traffic to meet the minimums to, to run ads. But anyone who’s specialized in paid search in the last five years, want to like chime in?
Unknown Speaker 2:02
Yeah, I will. I would suggest that you look at custom audience targeting and affinity, affinity audience targeting in the Google Display Network. Those have worked really well for me, for b2b audiences. And the ads can be tailored. I won’t go into detail on how to create them and best practices, but the ads can be tailored for the company for the advertiser, and the target audience. So definitely something to look into if you’re trying to get those expensive, hard to find b2b audiences. Let’s see. I see John’s back, my john blue. Oh, let’s see. Scrolling through previous questions.
Unknown Speaker 3:07
Unknown Speaker 3:08
go ahead. While we’re finding that, john, do you have any thoughts on on b2b through paid search?
Unknown Speaker 3:16
in what context? Exactly?
Unknown Speaker 3:19
Basically, the best ways to use paid search in b2b.
Unknown Speaker 3:24
So it’s got a bit broad, but it’s pretty broad. Yeah, I mean, from a keyword perspective, you know, it’s, it’s all about understanding the journey, or, like the the phases that a person’s going through is there, you know, they don’t even know what they need Exactly. But they’ve got an inkling like that there’s a gap in their strategy. And then to work, what’s the next set of queries that they may be searching for? Because they’ve got a better idea, right? They’ve seen all the competition, all the options, and they’re whittling it down, right? Like thinking through that. That’s always like one of the, it was always one of my favorite parts of b2b for search was parsing that out, you can make a lot of assumptions and come up with a pretty decent strategy. And then, of course, as always, you learn from the query data and say, Okay, here’s where I was, right, here’s where I was wrong, let’s improve. But I would say from a Microsoft advertising perspective, of course, I got to throw in the LinkedIn profile targeting, you know, an incremental lift and more importantly, just to say, Okay, now I want to isolate this bucket of people. Let’s say somebody that works at Microsoft, I’m willing to pay 10% 20% 100% more per click. That’s pretty powerful stuff from a b2b perspective, although I would argue you could use those audiences for anything. But for b2b, it’s a particular important.
Unknown Speaker 4:43
Agreed. Okay, another question that came in while Jason was speaking. But I think any of us can handle this. Any advice for targeting Gen X for clothing
Unknown Speaker 5:04
Start with age for one. And that’s kind of your first go to, I mean, goodness, they probably are still pretty stuck in Facebook. Sure some of them have migrated over the, you know, the Instagrams, and maybe the tech talks and whatnot. But yeah, I
Unknown Speaker 5:24
think, you know, just in addition to the, the the age targeting, you know, that particular demographic is spending a lot of time in stories. And so, that’s a situation where you do want to make sure you have effective ad creative for those placements. Because they love video. They love stories. And, you know, that’s where they’re hanging out and spending time. So make sure that you, you have the right creative to be in those places.
Unknown Speaker 5:54
And to add to that Instagram Stories is huge. If you’re looking for ideas, look at other brands that are doing something similar, or even something different with that target audience that is skewing a little bit younger. Look at Facebook’s ad library, there are some really great ways to look for other brands to get inspiration, maybe take what other brands are doing that are bigger and save that time and money and start testing something that’s authentic to your brand kind of in the same way that they’re doing it. You know, in addition to Instagram, if you have additional budget, you know, snap and tik tok might be other areas where you can find those younger demographics.
Unknown Speaker 6:28
Mike, Mike Freedman chimed in and said that Microsoft did some interesting research on how Gen Xers like themes of diversity and inclusion.
Unknown Speaker 6:40
I’ll grab the link for that. That’s our marketing with purpose research that was done last year, there was a lot of interesting data points, but that was definitely one of one of the call outs. Cool. With apparel in general, it’s all about the image, right? And so product ads shopping are what they are right? You’re not going to get super creative with that, right? The format only allows for so much. But when you think about the social element, native advertising all those pieces, there’s really an opportunity to think outside the box. And so I had talked with somebody last year, and they had an apparel brand, not necessarily for Gen X, although that was certainly a big chunk of their audience. But it was collegiate sports think that that realm, right? So licensed gear was specifically like brightly colored pants and shorts and shirts, things like that. And they really started to branch out and have fun with their images. And once they did that, like developed a personality visually and with their creative. That’s when the magic happened, right? That’s when click through rates shot up, conversion rate shot up. And so I think with apparel in particular, don’t be afraid to have fun, they’ll just have people standing there and your clothes. Like they think bigger. Thank you do something more.
Unknown Speaker 8:00
Exactly. And just one more thing to add to that when it comes to creative product shots are good. But we’ve seen we work with a lot of apparel brands. And we’ve seen that you’re doing lifestyle shots that are particularly video do outperform static images, or just single product shots. And user generated content. Right?
Unknown Speaker 8:20
Um, by the way, I made a mistake that was should have been about Gen Z, not Gen X. Does that change anyone’s answer?
Unknown Speaker 8:32
A little bit, but I’d stay more on Instagram and Facebook compared to snap and tick tock tic because those are a little bit younger, but you know, test them out and find out what works best for you.
Unknown Speaker 8:42
Unknown Speaker 8:43
So Gen Z. I think that’s the xenial. Right. That’s the old millennial, which is this guy. So like, I worked, I worked dad jeans and plaid shirts. So like, I don’t know, what you will
Unknown Speaker 8:59
think you have pegged yourself.
Unknown Speaker 9:01
I have I have?
Unknown Speaker 9:05
Oh, let’s see. This one came up when Jason was speaking. There’s a particular challenge for service based advertising. Let’s refine this a little bit by saying local service based advertising. Sydney was looking for inspiration for animation and videos. Just you know, just off the bat, it doesn’t it’s not intuitively obvious, what kind of animation are some examples of animation that would work well.
Unknown Speaker 9:45
So I think a couple places I would start are the actual Facebook for business site where there is a swath of Creative Case studies and examples and practices and you can You know, filter and search by the industry, you’re looking to, you know, the platform, you’re interested in the ad placement. And so that’s, that’s an important place to, to start. I think as far as you know, adding motion, again, it’s, it doesn’t have to be, you know, something that’s gonna, you know, a can lion award, right? Like, you can generate and get a lot of performance, just by having you know, the logo move, or, you know, having some of the copy and text actually transition in motion, or, you know, maybe it’s, you know, let’s say, your service is lawncare, you know, having the actual, you know, color of the lawn, you know, even within a static image change from, you know, brown to yellow to, you know, bright green is a great way to add some of those kinds of elements to the to the creative. And so there’s ways for you to do it. So I would definitely check out some of those case studies. Good.
Unknown Speaker 11:04
Great advice. And if I can add to that, if you don’t have any video, and maybe you’re developing it, you don’t have the resources yet, within ads manager, you can find the video creation kit. So you can upload static images and add some subtle motion. It’s free, it’s built in, there’s different templates. So even anything with just some emotion, whether it’s text, or just the transitions between images that works really well to
Unknown Speaker 11:28
just got a comment from Dawson, who’s recommending a book called hook point, which talks about how to find what will make people stop scrolling, and pay attention to the ads. Sounds great. So how do you guys this is to the panelists, how do you guys brainstorm what will cause someone to stop? What did the Jason call it from from catching
Unknown Speaker 12:01
up in creative
Unknown Speaker 12:02
writing? How do you how do you brainstorm what will cause someone to thumb stop and pay attention? brainstorming?
Unknown Speaker 12:16
Well, especially on LinkedIn, and Facebook, because the color palette is so blues, grays and whites, you can really get a lot of mileage of just having creative that that pops from that. So orange is kind of the opposite of blue. So if you saturate heavy and oranges, reds, greens, Hanks, that can help at least get attention. Yeah, I’ll stop there, I’m sure someone else has good advice.
Unknown Speaker 12:45
I’m just gonna say the fast moving cars, like, I feel like the examples that I’ve seen that work really well. Or, again, like, if you have things that are moving really quickly, in the image or the in the in the moving image or the video, that tends to work really well. The other thing I’ll just add is about if you are going to have faces or people you want, you know, up close shots. And so sometimes people will take, you know, a TV ad that they’ve done, which is you know, been made to watch, you know, 10 feet away on a on a big widescreen, that typically doesn’t work well. And so you want to cut it to make sure that you’re close in on the face. And like I mentioned before, that the face is actually facing the consumer. And that we’ve seen that we see a lot of big improvements in terms of impact when you when you apply those
Unknown Speaker 13:38
good. There is a there is difference between looking looking at something and paying attention. And it’s what well, what are the penalties says for sure to and face is looking at directly at the user, grab, grab add some some attention, but an even bright colors and moving things grab attention. But it’s it’s true. That also the contrary, something that seems quite a sight function more than a banner more than a an advertising is going to to have more attention from the user, the user is not there for chance is there for looking at something in a site so that that site is created open on in the mind of the user if he thinks that he is clicking on something belonging to that site and not simply banner ads and advertising. Maybe it has more attention than then something clearly looking as an as an ad. A point,
Unknown Speaker 15:12
by the way, that’s john Paulo Russo. Our paid search Association Board numbers from which city in Italy?
Unknown Speaker 15:24
And Milan, Yeah, hello. Yeah. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 15:28
So welcome to the sun. My another good question. This is a paid search question that Microsoft and Google could answer, because it has to do with the feature that they have in common. How about some inspiration for how to layer audiences on search campaigns?
Unknown Speaker 16:07
Yes, do it. So I mean, look, it there’s there’s an endless, endless number of combinations, right? And that you’ve got to start with the obvious start at the bottom of they, they’ve been to the site they’ve converted. Okay. And use that as your building point, to start to think through, Okay, what else is there? You know, there, there’s the we got to go back and forth between observation and targeting, or bid versus bid and target. In thinking through that as well. And so I think there’s merit to actual layer and you think, okay, I’ve got audience remarketing audience I’ve got in market, I’ve got all these different options. And yes, you can stack those within a given, you know, campaign or ad group. I think that there can be an argument for that. But I think more times than not, there’s also an argument to say, Okay, what if I break these out, and start to test them in isolation? And so that would be the target. Right. And, or targeted bid? Because within market in particular, like, That’s such a powerful thing? That, in my mind, like testing alone, right, and so, yeah, that’s duplicating effort, as it were, right? You’re going to have the same keywords in multiple spots. But oftentimes, I think that the payoff is certainly going to be there. You know, and Yuki asked the question, I accidentally clicked the wrong button initially, just to answer it live. But I did reply to her. Um, you know, there’s further unique opportunities, again, LinkedIn profile targeting, and that further adds in another curveball. And so when it comes to layering, like, I know that there are probably like case studies and things like that out there, but I can’t think of them off the top of my head. But it’s, it’s, I would say test them, scaled layered together. But more times than not, I would come to the table and recommend also test them in isolation, including LinkedIn profile targeting least if nothing else, just to understand participant meters of data in terms of performance, chances are like you can even have the same ads in both different instances and in isolation, a completely different version different copies is going to pop and perform better. And so until you until you do the test and get the data you’re not going to know.
Unknown Speaker 18:36
Quite so would you say at the very least or start with remarketing lists. audiences,
Unknown Speaker 18:44
it’s the go to remarketing I would say like in market continues to come up in the list. But those two and I think you’ve referenced it in my presentation earlier, like those two are really the temples, definitely on the actual to advertising side. But I would argue on the Google side as well. Those two really prop up everything that’s happening from an audience perspective, but remarketing in my mind, because it’s it’s your data. What’s happening on your site is really the go to
Unknown Speaker 19:14
I want to put another plug in here about Google Display networks, custom intent audiences, where the advertiser can pretty tightly describe the audience they want to reach and through algorithm magic, the audience that you that you target, sees your ads and is more likely to click on. OK, let’s see. automatical Alright. Just a pause here. Just say that We are recording these sessions, and we will make them available to the attendees. And I also want to acknowledge the fact that Christie Olson has joined us another board member from Microsoft, and Lisa Ressler from big clico. The board member. Um, let’s see, I need more questions.
Unknown Speaker 20:26
And I add something on to John’s Sure. I’ve been doing a lot with our audience layering retargeting. So I was in John’s previous role, and I’m the head of paid search across all of Microsoft businesses. And we’ve been really looking at how do we use our audiences based on a combination of the audience we are trying to reach, but also understanding where the person’s at in the purchase funnel, and re guiding and redirecting consumers to the right pages on the site as well as where we think they should be going based on the intent behind the keywords they’re using. And what I can say I won’t give all the results in the back end. But we have a lot of overlap. As you can imagine, across Microsoft, we’re looking to use surface as an example, we have people interested in actually purchasing the surface laptop, but we also have people they’re just doing research, keywords or content. on general intent, purchase based intent on words or using putting on your top remaining custom pages on the site that we take them to to let them self select where they are in the fall. And we’ve seen the conversion rates increased pretty substantially by doing that type of targeting and then building a remarketing lists for search after they’ve selected a pack. So that as they need your searches, we guide them down a path in the purchase area. So you can really start putting together your consumer journey maps of understanding the user what they engage with, and how they engage in directing them. And then using your keywords in your ad copy and landing pages as lovers for where you guide and direct them. related or. And as john said, you can do a lot of layering on top of each other.
Unknown Speaker 22:11
Unknown Speaker 22:12
you want to make sure that you are not so complex that manage it moving forward. And that is the challenge if you do too much layering and continue adding an audience upon audience upon audience, are you narrowing the window too much and reducing your targeting breadth and capabilities? Or are you doing in a way that’s manageable in the future?
Unknown Speaker 22:34
Good. Thank you, Christine. Okay, um, what book would you recommend to someone who’s starting out in paid search?
Unknown Speaker 22:51
I’m gonna answer that. First of all, mine is too old. So if you want to know the agent, ancient history of paid search, certainly pick that up. I like Brad Geddes book. And the other one I like is Andrew goodmans. Both of them have been updated for modern times. And they’re they’re both I think excellent intros. The other the other plug I would give would be to Perry Marshall’s materials. I think that he has a book available through Amazon, but he’s definitely the one I learned from in ancient history. Okay, um, I’m going to wrap up pretty soon. Any last questions?
Unknown Speaker 23:54
There was one of the chat I just answered. Grant Sexton had asked my grant. You know, any advice on best strategies for uncovering new keywords in paid search to garner extra traffic? And so, you know, there’s some, you kind of fundamental pathways to that, you know, one we were somewhat touching on with the audience and audience layer in conversation, but audience plus match type experimentation, to see what you start to match to DSA, of course, I think is what I talked about last year, for the show, right? That’s, that’s one of the coolest ways I would argue to uncover and discover new queries. But there’s of course, there’s a ton of other pathways. One as simple as simply having inter team your intra team, brainstorming sessions, right? What is sales, seeing what is marketing, seeing, what is the C suite, seeing and just kind of talking through reading customer feedback for datums and things like that, I mean, again, keyword ideas can and should come from just about everywhere. So it’s, it’s, uh, I don’t know, I don’t know that I’ve ever seen an exhaustive list.
Unknown Speaker 25:06
I’ve got two more that are brand new. One of them was by Kirk Williams, another PSA board member and he’ll be speaking this week. And that is called PPC out Confessions of a PPC professional. And then also, Fred valets and other PSA board member, speaking on Friday did a good job in his ebook about PPC and a
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